The No Film School Podcast

• Blueprints for Making Films Outside of the System

  In this episode, GG Hawkins and Jason Hellerman present a roundtable discussion with independent filmmakers Daniel Talbott, Sav Rogers, and Mikko Mäkelä. These three creatives share their unique journeys in the film industry, highlighting the importance of queer cinema, mentorship, and community. They discuss the challenges of gatekeeping, the power of DIY filmmaking, and the need for filmmakers to take control of their own greenlighting process. From premiering at Sundance and Tribeca to navigating the ever-changing landscape of independent film distribution, this episode offers a deep dive into the resilience and creativity required to make films outside the traditional Hollywood system. In this episode, No Film School’s GG Hawkins, Jason Hellerman, Daniel Talbott, Sav Rogers, and Mikko Mäkelä discuss: [00:07] GG Hawkins and Jason Hellerman introduce the episode, recorded ahead of South by Southwest [00:41] Introducing the roundtable guests: Daniel Talbott, Sav Rogers, and Mikko Mäkelä [01:06] The unique journeys of each filmmaker and their impact on queer cinema [01:30] Challenges in the independent film landscape, including gatekeeping and DIY filmmaking [02:24] The importance of self-greenlighting and not waiting for permission [03:12] Balancing artistic expression with the business side of filmmaking [10:44] The role of mentorship and community in helping emerging queer filmmakers [15:14] Strategies for inspiring industry gatekeepers to invest in queer stories [22:21] Navigating meetings with executives and dealing with industry fears [26:40] How the collapse of the streaming acquisition model affects independent filmmakers [28:17] The importance of finding ways to share resources and build a film community [31:42] Embracing both DIY filmmaking and larger-scale projects in tandem [33:13] How a filmmaker’s unique voice is their most valuable asset [34:11] Moments when the filmmakers had to greenlight themselves [41:57] The experience of sharing personal work with an audience [47:10] How independent queer films resonate with unexpected audiences [52:14] The power of queer filmmakers supporting one another [53:38] How audiences can better support independent queer cinema [56:02] What’s next for Daniel, Sav, and Mikko Memorable Quotes: "The ability to go out and shoot your own work is the way to prove that people are interested, to prove that things are important." "Don't ask for permission. Make it, go do it, find the audience, bring them in, prove everybody wrong." "We are as complicated and human as anyone else on this planet. Get to know our stories and be uncomfortable with it." "For queer cinema to stay authentic and radical, it will, by necessity, most often be made in a DIY spirit." Guests Daniel Talbott Sav Rogers Mikko Mäkelä Find Out More: Watch Chasing, Chasing Amy by Sav Rogers: Available on streaming platforms and through libraries on Kanopy Transgender Film Center Explore Mikko Mäkelä’s work: www.mikkomakayla.com Follow Daniel Talbott on Instagram: @DanielCameronTalbott More from No Film School: Visit NoFilmSchool.com for industry news, interviews, and filmmaking resources. Have a question or topic suggestion? Email us: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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  1:11:42
• Crafting Connection: The Editors Behind 'Daughters'

  In this episode, we dive into the editing process behind Daughters, the heart-wrenching and beautifully crafted documentary that follows four young girls preparing for a father-daughter dance with their incarcerated fathers. Editors Troy Lewis and Adelina Bichis take us inside their process, from shaping the raw footage to balancing the film’s emotional weight and ensuring the story was told ethically and collaboratively. Daughters premiered at Sundance, is shortlisted for the Academy Awards, and is now streaming on Netflix. If you haven't seen it yet, this conversation will give you a whole new appreciation for the craftsmanship behind the film. In this episode, No Film Schools’s GG Hawkins, Troy Lewis, and Adelina Bichis discuss: [00:08] Listener emails about breaking into Hollywood and finding confidence as a filmmaker [01:59] Introduction to Daughters and its powerful impact [02:57] The unique editing process, with Troy shaping the early cuts and Adelina refining the final version [08:47] How they structured the massive amount of footage into a cohesive story [16:45] Using index cards, beat sheets, and writing techniques in documentary editing [19:02] The challenges of weaving together multiple character arcs [30:37] Ethics in documentary filmmaking and ensuring psychological safety for subjects [35:42] The portrayal of masculinity and fatherhood in Daughters [38:34] Editing tools and techniques that helped shape the final cut [50:17] Advice for aspiring editors and documentary filmmakers Memorable Quotes “The girls were so strong, everything was so moving… I thought, ‘This is a film I want to be part of.’” “We wanted to keep interviews to a minimum and really focus on verité scenes, almost as narrative film scenes.” “It was important for the film to view them as fathers first and foremost.” “We had to make sure that every part shown in the film had its place there, that it truly belonged.” Guests Troy Lewis Adelina Bichis Resources Watch the Daughters trailer Find No Film School everywhere: On the Web: No Film School Facebook: No Film School on Facebook Twitter: No Film School on Twitter YouTube: No Film School on YouTube Instagram: No Film School on Instagram Send us an email with questions or feedback: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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  1:02:04
• Amazon Captures Bond and a Producer on Producing

  In this special episode of No Film School, GG Hawkins and Jason Hellerman dive into the Amazon acquisition of James Bond, what it means for the future of the franchise, and whether Bond spin-offs are inevitable. They also discuss IP fatigue and how streamers are expanding globally to combat it. Then, filmmaker Elle Roth-Brunet joins the show to talk about her unconventional journey into producing, demystifying indie film financing, and why tough conversations are essential in production. In this episode, No Film School’s GG Hawkins, Jason Hellerman, and Elle Roth-Brunet discuss: The history of James Bond’s ownership and what Amazon’s billion-dollar deal changes The risk of oversaturation—is Bond headed toward Marvel/Star Wars territory? The global market shift that keeps franchise fatigue at bay How Bond’s new freedom could lure filmmakers like Christopher Nolan Elle Roth-Brunet’s journey from marketing to film producing The reality of indie film financing—debt vs. equity vs. deficit financing The importance of clear producer roles in today’s industry Guests: Elle Roth-Brunet – Producer of I Really Love My Husband and indie film advocate. Memorable Quotes: “James Bond movies are always events. But if you keep pouring water into the gin bottle, at some point, it’s just water.” (04:51) “Filmmaking is 95% business and 5% creative. If you don’t understand the business, you’re not in control of your own movie.” (56:39) “The biggest lesson I learned? Hard conversations lead to breakthroughs. If you avoid them, you stall progress.” (22:45) “Boat Day was the most stressful day in theory—and then ended up being the easiest. The day we didn’t stress over? That was the hardest.” (26:33) Resources: Every James Bond Film, Ranked Find No Film School everywhere: On the Web: No Film School Facebook: No Film School on Facebook Twitter: No Film School on Twitter YouTube: No Film School on YouTube Instagram: No Film School on Instagram 📩 Send us an email with questions or feedback: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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  1:06:50
• How ‘The Substance’ Editor Trimmed the Fat of the Hit Body Horror Flick

  In this episode of No Film School, GG Hawkins sits down with Jérôme Eltabet, the editor of the Oscar-nominated body horror film The Substance. Jérôme shares his journey from assistant director to editor, detailing his work with director Coralie Fargeat to bring The Substance to life. He breaks down the editing challenges, the importance of sound design, and why cutting a horror film is all about creating an immersive experience. In this episode, No Film School’s GG Hawkins and Jérôme Eltabet discuss: How Jérôme transitioned from assistant director to editor What it was like editing 300+ hours of footage for The Substance How sound design and score shaped the film’s tension The massive changes from the first cut to the final version How the film’s themes influenced its pacing and cutting style The collaborative dynamic between Jérôme and director Coralie Fargeat Memorable Quotes: “I do remember I gave a call to Coralie to say, ‘Oh, this movie is going to be very long.’ And she told me, ‘Shh, don’t tell anyone! We’ll talk about this later in the edit room.’” (8:38) “We had maybe 150 different versions of some sequences because Coralie needs to have the kind of goosebumps to like it. It’s not something you can explain—she just has to feel it.” (10:29) “Coralie didn’t want any realistic sounds. Everything had to be slightly off. The world needed to feel unnatural, unsettling—like something was always wrong.” (13:14) “The first rough cut was three and a half hours. Coralie wanted a perfect edit, a perfect sound design, so we fought to get the movie as tight as possible without losing its impact.” (32:10) “As an editor, you are the first audience. You have to trust your instincts, because six months later, after watching the same footage over and over, you’ll start doubting yourself.” (37:47) Guest: Jérôme Eltabet – Editor of The Substance, known for his precise, immersive approach to editing horror and psychological thrillers. Resources: The Substance – Ending Explained The Substance – Lookbook Read & Download The Substance Screenplay Find No Film School everywhere: On the Web: No Film School Facebook: No Film School on Facebook Twitter: No Film School on Twitter YouTube: No Film School on YouTube Instagram: No Film School on Instagram 📩 Send us an email with questions or feedback: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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  49:21
• This 30 Min Oner Short Played Sundance & Slamdance

  In this episode of No Film School, GG Hawkins sits down with Erin Brown Thomas, the director of Chasers, a 30-minute single-take short that played both Sundance and Slamdance 2025. Erin shares how she navigated festival promotion, the complexities of grassroots outreach, and why personalized marketing is critical for indie filmmakers. She also dives into the deeper themes of Chasers, which explores red flags in dating and the hustle culture of the entertainment industry. In this episode, No Film School’s GG Hawkins and Erin Brown Thomas discuss: How Chasers came to life and why Erin chose the oner format Her experience at Sundance and prepping for Slamdance in Los Angeles Why festival outreach feels like producing another film How she balances multiple roles in the industry while keeping her projects moving The financial realities of indie filmmaking and how to fundraise creatively Why personalized outreach is critical for making industry connections Memorable Quotes: “I spent most of my time at Sundance doing grassroots promotion for Chasers, but certain opportunities were just also really, really fun. We did a lot of panels. The panels in particular were like my favorite thing. We did a flash mob on Main Street—that was so much fun.” (2:50) “You’re really looking at like a full-time job as if you're making a whole other movie when you have an opportunity to play on this larger scale.” (3:16) “Every email you write, you want it to be bespoke. You want it to be personal. Everything needs to be done with grace and intention, walking that fine balance of being really confident that you're in the right place but also being, you know, grateful.” (4:08) “It’s always so much easier to stand up for yourself when somebody else who loves you is in the room. And by putting a film like this out into the open, I’m having those discussions with people who care about me.” (21:16) Guest: Erin Brown Thomas – Director of Chasers, festival programmer, and multi-hyphenate filmmaker passionate about lifting up other creatives. Resources: Chasers Film – Official Linktree Extraction 2 Director Sam Hargrave on Oners, Stunts, and Filmmaking All No Film School Articles on Oners Erin Brown Thomas on IMDb Find No Film School everywhere: On the Web: No Film School Facebook: No Film School on Facebook Twitter: No Film School on Twitter YouTube: No Film School on YouTube Instagram: No Film School on Instagram 📩 Send us an email with questions or feedback: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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  38:49

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